Thx for all the help/argueing, but i've decided what i'm gonna do.

I'm gonna be full affli, UA rather than ruin. Sure i'll do less damage on trash but who cares about trash, bosses are what count.
I think i'd just prefer dots to bigger crits, its the shadow priest in me coming out again.

And also i think i'm probly going to take both shadows embrace(5% less damage one, cant remember if i got name right) and malediction. Buffs for raid are all good.

And don't concern yourself with how i should alter my current spec. My current spec is pretty awful, its only for ease of levelling really. I.e. Instant Howl of Terror

Thx for all the advice anyway, its helped me to make up my mind

Instant howl rocks

(Though it's useless in raids )

all these post where not even mend about you kamyn i dont know why you think your dmg is not oke as it is good i hoped more warlock here would do same dmg as you or hinaaja

only thing what i said about you was a example that you also had not the points like the other main warlocks in the embrace and Malediction as you said you talent build was good for pve and grinding

dont blaim me if you feeld atacked ^^

and i dont mean it on the way to be intresting becaus no one put ithere mouth open, and people keep forgetting this is a raiding guild not a pvp or grind guild and just want to shake people basicly to wake up and get a build what's is excaly good for raiding

Leven, I'm not blaming your or something.
I just wanted to make clear that a affli-ruin build is a very viable build in raids.

But I've altered some talents, atm i got full malediction and 2 points in shadow embrace.
More i really can't do as I would miss other key talents then.
There is not 1 talent for grinding in my build anymore, so I think all what guild could ask from a raiding lock. If others now follow, we would have a great dps & raid buff lock squadron!

And Mighty has 5/5 embrace atm, so as long as he keeps his current build we are safe

Yeah, I'm trying some new things out now, so I re-specced again.
(No more demonic sacrifice; you lot can have my Imp buff back again ^_^)

If I've understood the theory correctly, Shadow Embrace effectively gives the tanks (or anyone else in the raid) a 5% boost to their armour. If it were in a tank's talent tree I'm sure they would pick it, so it makes sense in my mind.
What I want to know is, if you have more than one 'lock... do the Shadow Embraces stack..?


I've been testing a few other things out as well.

I've been trying out Dark Pact. While I still maintain that Mana Tap and Drain Life is better, I've found Dark Pact has something I've never thought of: you never get a healer thinking you're taking damage if you us Dark Pact.

I've also been trying out Shadowburn, which is actually quite nice.
If you have too many shards in your bags, it's a nice way to get rid of them, and a nice instance damage spell ^_^;;
If you're low on shards, it forces you to use it as a finishing blow, but is still a nice way of finishing off a mob.

technically yes and no it doesnt buff the raid just nerfs the boss.

and yeah i like shadow burn, but i dont think id have it in my spec if ever i could be bored enough to lvl a lock. i dont think id ever go sac-destro spec, but i would deffo go either full affli with demonology talents (dot up and drain life) or ruin spec. I would probs go affli til i get the hit (just like smell) and then go ruin spec.

oh and as for not having grinding specs as a lock? boo bloody hoo. it takes me 6 years to kill 1 mob, and if i wanna go faster i have to drink between fights. so dont moan about not grinding, cos if u do i will come and stick ur demon down ur throat.

Curse of Shadow and Curse of elements both do NOT stack. Please be carefull there when you re deciding who should use what curse on a raid. Usually you want to have at least three active locks with the malediction talent, as they can buff locks and mages that way, and it means that when one of em can t raid, the other two are still there.

Shadow embrace can be handy right now, but on stages like black temple it will be useless. The reason for this is that it takes up one dot spot - and by the time you re at BT (or at kael / vash); you ll be wanting more DPS instead of more mitigation. Your tank can usually take it by that point anyway, as well as your healers having no problem keeping your tank up. Also, shadow embrace does NOT stack.

"ruin or UA? " The reason i pick UA, is because it s a more consistent form of damage. You cast it, it will procure "extra" damage. And while ruin has more damage potential, it will come out as the losing talent when you do not have the gear to support it. Tested and verified, believe you me

finally: just confirming on imps, their only role in a raid is to provide impbuff and be a living phaseshifted mana battery. If you wish to play with an active demon, you ll want the fellguard because he s the only demon with a bit of a decent mix between damage and survivability. And that means you ll have to go demonology.

Oh, and Kam, for the record: I wasn t close to Levenloos, I was above him when I could go full out

i had a thought, doesnt life tap slow ur dps cos it causes a global cooldown?

Yes, but so does dark pact...

Only difference is that dark pact doens't distract the healers.

It does, but on the other hand, it allows you to keep up your dps instead of waiting on mana regeneration. And the 0.5 second GCD is well worth the added dps because of extra mana

With poor hit rating u should always go affliction. 200 hit and ur gonna dazzle peeps with ur sb/incinerate spam (well, aggro is awesome anyway). With 10-100 hit u should do affli, if the dot is resisted, just dot again and u wont lose shit for dps. Affliction is the "cheapest" way to do awe dps, even with crappy gear.

Im geared enough (finally) to use destro but im loving the fact i can do good dps with demo AND i get to heal the wanka all the time too. And it pisses some people off, thats a bonus. Im not stupid, i just decide not to listen what others say. Or am i just stupid...

Whenever ur not the shittiest dps in raids with ur lock i think u do ok. If not doing atleast double the dps the tank does, with any dps class, check ur head. Also if u use searing pain as dps ur a drooling idiot.

/cough SP Heroic

Yup, sp heroic 3man rocked. Theres a good test if ur locks dps is good or not.

Btw i didnt use searing pain, just critted with sb twice. U suck.

u told me u used SP!!! and im sorry that after 5 secs i cant get 8k threat on a mob

although in a second i get about 2.1k but thats due to a 30sec CD and 2 8 sec CDs.

As i said before when we were raiding. The only time when i could really go full out, was on lurker, since i didn t appear on the primary agrolist there

i saw some interesting points of view about lock....i was full destro when i was leveling 20/0/41 after a went 41/0/20 to see that UA was not that gr8 so respected 40/0/21 (i think this is the best) and now i'm 30/21/10....a mix of improved dots + succ.sac.(15% more shadow dmg) + bane - its a nice spec but kinda missing the ruin crit's
so ...dot the boss and than SB...on mob tactics is SB...dont bother doting ...they die faster than u'r dots run out...anyhows u can talk about lock specs all day long...the bottom line is that u dont have enought talent points to have them all....but if u want to get full dps..that is 40/0/21...u go CoA/CoS/CoE (depending on what is needed) coruption and shifon life and after spam SB...imolation is just a waist of casting time since u focus on shadow damage beeing an aff lock...

but who am i to tell u ...this is just my opinion and my advice is ...spec as u'r heart tells u...if it turns out bad....just respec till u get the right ballance for u

U do best dps when u find the most suitable build for yourself. I cant do shit for dps with affliction, too many buttons. And with destro im always aggroing. Ruin spec is boring. Felguard spec is fun to use and best non-aggroing dps FOR ME so im using it.

Just go and try every spec, u'll find the best dps for urself. Thats what i did and spent like 3x epic flying mount golds but hell, i got ok dps now. Theres no "the right spec" for everyone.