Lazarus Guild
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Another try at being more helpful
http://www.lazguild.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=482		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Chris [ Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Another try at being more helpful
Hopefully I'll be able to start going to raids a little more consistently now.

Seeing as everyone was complaing about our weak DPS on Sunday, I've given respecing another go.

I've said goodbye to my pets and am now trying out a Demonlig Sacrifice build. I've tried it out, both grinding and during Kara yesterday, and it seems to be working well.

And this time I'll try and stay that spec for a while ^_^;;

Just don't ask me to be on Imp duty; I'm without pets like this!
Author:  shead [ Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
omg! how much spell crit u got? :<
tbh this is a good build, but it doesnt really support other people in the raid i.e. affliction, and if sunday was the hydross raid (been to sleep since then) then it wasn't the dps as much as it was the tactics, however we're going to try getting more time spent between trasitions so that u can nuke him that little bit harder...

also, destro is single target dps, and the highest of all the other specs in termsof threat, it wont really help on hydross because locks are meant to use seed of corruption on hydross so the adds get blown up too.
Author:  Chris [ Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
I've got points spent on reducing the casting time of my shadow bolt, but apart from that I'm affliction not destruction.

I know that by not having my Imp out five people won't get a stamina buff, but I hope you think of Warlocks adding more to the raid than 70 points of stamina for people...
Author:  Ssrassaxx [ Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
Link me your build and i ll tell you if it s shite or not :P
Author:  Chris [ Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Here's the link to the Lazarus Roster page if you didn't know it.

Say what you want, but I know it's good :P
Author:  Theta [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:07 am ]
Post subject: 
In raids it's unavoidable for a warlock to put his imp out though, I don't see why you should try to strain the healers more by not doing so.
Author:  Chris [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:03 am ]
Post subject: 
Theta, we argued in guild chat last night; I'm not sure what the point of doing it all over again on the forums is..?

I know stamina is life or death for the tanks, and hence life or death for all of us.
It's worth having an Imp out to cover at least the main tank group, and I've got points spent on improving my Imp, just in case you need me to do it.

I'm in a raid to DPS though, and there is a line. I mean, would you want me to take off my helm and put on an Admiral's Cap too..?
Author:  Matafaka [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:17 am ]
Post subject: 
If his spec is sacrifice, he will sacrifice it. We're not pushing people doing other than what they wanna do in this guild. Unless people go full out pvp specs that cant do shit for dps (=shitty dps as SL/SL build, not using incinerate spam with it) then im gonna say something (as im acting for lock cl for the time being). Sacrifice spec is nice, good dps. Not so much help for group but still, its his spec and hes going to use it. Unless the raid leader really really really needs imp for his twisted fantasies.

Cant really force anyone to respec to anything else than what they want, as long as they dont finish last in the dmg charts. Especially when i myself am using felguard spec (love the crap people try tell me when i bring it to raids) with hinaaja and not planning on respeccing to anything else. Cos i suck with other builds.
Author:  Ssrassaxx [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another try at being more helpful
The problem with your build and gear is that you re a bit of a "i can do everything, but excell at nothing" warlock type. You ve got sacrifice to up your dmg, but you go half affliction with it.
The idea with sacrifice builds is that you ve got your demon gone to get more dmg. Usually you go for high critbuilds with this type of build.
The idea with affliction builds is that you use your demon to get more mana and a living mana battery.
Therefore the two "ideal" builds, revolving around damage (and a bit of raidsupport in case of affliction) are the pure affliction spec, and the sac/destro build.

Your build has none of either, and sacrifices the raid support to boot with.
In my opinion, it s far from ideal, and will get you below par dmg :)

Best way to decide what build you want is look at what you wish to acquire besides raiding. Do you want to be good at grinding and survivability, or do good dmg and have no survivability in 5 mans? Do you want to pvp or do pve? Once you ve decided these things, you can go for a build and acquire the gear that goes with your build.
Get comfortable with your build and stick with it, then try to top DPS with it :)
Author:  Chris [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another try at being more helpful
Ssrassaxx wrote:
The idea with sacrifice builds is that you ve got your demon gone to get more dmg. Usually you go for high critbuilds with this type of build.

If you're aiming to boost Shadow damage, the only main Warlock spell that can crit is Shadowbolt. Curses, Corruption, Drain Life and (if you have it) Siphon Life aren't affected as far as I understand.
Of course, a lot depends on how you play; but unless you swear an oath never to use DoTs then spelldamage is always going to be more important than spell crit.

Ssrassaxx wrote:
The idea with affliction builds is that you use your demon to get more mana and a living mana battery.

I've never understood this line of thinking. I've tried Life Tap before, but it's very slow, and without Mana Feed from the Demo tree pets are always OOM anyway.
Even if you've not got points spent on Life Tap and Siphon Life/Drain Life, I still think they're a lot more powerful than Dark Pact. But with a 10-25% bonus to Shadow Spells then they own ^_^
Author:  Kam [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another try at being more helpful
Hey Mighty,

first of all, get a build that you like to play!
It's not the best one to get into raids, but you sure will do some nice dmg and if you like it why not?

The improved healthstones are nice to and tanks will be glad to have more now.

I just wanted to respond about the dark pact and pet mana regen.
Don't underestimate the regen of an imp!
If you use dark pact, it's always together with the imp as it has the best mana regen of all pets.
If you get imp out of his phase shift when buffing, he get's all group buffs. So that includes the spirit from priests and the blessings of the pala.
All together, that gives your imp insane mana regen and I use it as my spare mana battery at every raid boss.
As soon as my mana is at 75% or so, I get mana from imp. That way, he's always back at full mana against the time I need more.

And I can tell you one thing, I can keep going on forever like this!
If the imp is oom, just do a life tab if you are in real mana need and let siphon life fill you up again (although healers are mainly to fast to heal you up :P ).

So, that only to say not to underestimate dark pact!

Oh, 1 more thing:
dots are affected by spell damage!
So spell damage is very important for affli locks.
And only real use to prefer the spell crit is if you have Ruin talent in desto in my opinion :)
Author:  Chris [ Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another try at being more helpful
OK fair enough.
But I was arguing that spell damage was important too!
Author:  Matafaka [ Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another try at being more helpful
For a demo(sb spam) & destro lock u need first spell hit rating, then spell dmg

For Affliction & demo sucker spec, forget hit rating (suppression talents) and go all out on dmg.

Any way u wanna do ur builds, spell dmg is important, tho with nuke spec if u got 0 hit u will suck bigtime. I got about 1200-1300 +dmg and 160 hitrating, my dps isnt best cos i still hit air a lot. I think 200 would be ok for nuking. Tho the fel is slapping the mobs&bosses nuts. Espec with a shadowpriest in my group, i can go all out nuking, no pethealing needed.
Author:  Aia [ Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another try at being more helpful
since we are talking about specs...I used my time @ work to rethink my spec and I will respec from 32/8/21 to 30/21/10 and since its a sacrifice spec ...tank's will just have to try some runs without my improved imp since I will go for succi sacrifice...I’m 1082 bonus damage (not buffed) and 144 hit(57 to cap)...want go for more dps so buffed all the way I should be @1.4k shadow

I don’t know for how long I will use this spec but it will be for a wile....

oh yes and personal opinion about lock specs is that you can not go full affli or demo or destro ...u just have to find a hybrid way...to get the moast of all 3 builds...and bust dmg...that is for mages...lock are long fight dps in my vision + good AoE support
:mrgreen:
Author:  shead [ Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another try at being more helpful
ok having briefly read this stuff the 1 thing i picked out was that people are using sacrifice builds more.

personally i wouldnt go this way, but if i did i'd go fire destro rather than affli destro.

as i have said before, my favourate spec is 39-0-22 aka ruin spec.

u need about 200 hitrating (ish) then spell dam and a bit of crit, and dont say: "DoTs Cant Crit!" I KNOW THEY CANT, but ur shadowbolts can, and when they do they increase ur damage by x amount. and im pretty sure it stacks up to 20% which is better than an succ sac, and such. another good reason to stick with this is as saxx said, "dark pact" which is basically a mana pot. AND you can have ur imp out which benefits a tank.

but its ur choice of build u take, just dont go for dodgy "i made this up cos it looks cool" builds, research the best ones, and trust me for a warlock there are loads. Pick the one that seems the best for u, and go for it.
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