Verill's Mutilate Rogue Guide (PvE)
=========================

Hey folks, This is my mutilate guide I wrote and update. Good idea to put it here in the guild.

*** Updated for 3.1.3 ***
*** Last update 05/06/2009 ***

Why Mutilate ?
===========
Mutilate is an outstanding single-target(boss) spec which is more player-skill/management dependent than Combat,
and while played flawlessly it will out-damage a Combat rogue.
As a TBC Combat rogue, I can say Mutilate surely provides a more challenging experience.

The Build
=======
Best raid mutilate build as for now is 51/13/7 which looks like this:
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-talen ... d&n=Verill

I will explain the main talents which affect the most on your overall dps:

Relentless Strikes , Subtlety(RS) : Makes finishers somewhat "free". A 5CP Rupture or EA will always return their energy upon application, while Envenom/Eviscerate will cost you only 10 energy to apply. 20% chance per CP.
This talent is critical in helping you make decisions for your energy management. Will talk about this later.

Ruthlessness , Assassination : Gives a 60% chance on finishers to add a CP to your target after application.
Although an RNG talent, the CP given after finishers pushes your dps higher each time it procs.

Seal Fate , Assassination : The jewel of classic Assassination, Whenever your Mutilate crits, you will gain 3CP instead of 2CP. 3 CP for 60 energy.... Goody !

Overkill , Assassination : Used to be most hated talent in PvP by clothies, and A damage booster in PvE. Overkill has nice uses which I will get into later like using Vanish to proc Overkill (Vanish in PvE is not to save your tiny ass from a wipe).

Focused Attacks , Assassination (FA) : 2 energy for every critical melee swing. Oh baby !

Cut to the chase , Assassination (CttC) : Each envenom/eviscerate refreshes the SnD duration to its 5CP duration. One of the best talents in wotlk, makes keeping SnD up an easy task.

Hunger for Blood , Assassination (HfB) : Self buff of 15%(18% w Glyph) damage increase for 15 energy for 60 secs. Requires a bleed effect on your target.

The thumb rules for Mutilate rogue
==========================
1 ) Don't die
You are melee, you are squishie, and cleaves one-shot you. Know your encounter and prevent your death and damage, healers have better things to do than panic healing you.
2 ) Start from stealth
Even in fast pulls, return to stealth between waves to take advantage of Overkill.
3 ) Open with Garrote when possible to gain fast HfB. Or open with Mutil on trash only if you know someone will apply a quick bleed.
4 ) Fire SnD as soon as possible
Garrote->Mutil->SnD or Mutil->SnD
5 ) Keep HfB up as first priority
Although loosing HfB now cost only 15 energy, but in a situation where there is no bleed to reactive it... that's 18% less damage for few good seconds.
6 ) Keep SnD up as a second priority
Make use of CttC to refresh your SnD. Make sure to refresh SnD if below 10 secs before killing a mob even by using a silly 1CP eviscerate.
7 ) Keep Rupture up as third priority
8 ) Use TotT on MT to open with full burst and fast into the rotation (Plus helping the MT gain aggro).
9 ) Never over-aggro unless you damn know what you are doing. Vanish/Evasion/CloS if you don't.
10 ) Stay behind targets, mobs cannot parry from behind, only dodge. Parry makes the tank suffer faster strikes.

Item Stats
========

There are 6 stats that increases the DPS of a rogue : AP , Crit , Hit , Expertise , Haste , Armor.P
Although all 6 will increase your DPS, there are caps and min values to be taken under consideration as well as a balance to create.

How does the stats benefit:

Attack power : Increase the melee dps but mostly scales the poisons and envenom
Crit : Produces more Focused Attacks procs and more chance for Seal Fate procs
Hit : Reduces misses of swings and poisons
Expertise : Reduces dodge/parry while using special attacks and by that preventing energy waste (Bosses has around 6.5% parry/dodge chance)
Haste : More attacks = more poison procs/more focused attacks
Armor.P : More swings/mutilate damage

What are the important caps ?

The Hit cap for specials is 99 and 315 for poisons without any special buffs like Heroic presence or Misery
The Expertise cap is 26 (214 rating) for the mutilate rogue.

So between Hit and Exp, Which stat gets priority ?

Hit (below 99) > Expertise (below 20) > Hit (below 315) ~= Expertise (below 26) > Hit (above 315)

Hit above 722(good luck) or Expertise above 26 is considered a waste of dps.

For the rest of stats , the higher the better while 2AP > Agi > Crit/Hit(<315)/Exp(<26) > Haste/Armor.P

Daggers
======
3.1.x brings a new change to Mutil by allowing us to use slower daggers on MH without reducing the poison procs.
MH speeds should be around 1.6-1.8
OF speeds should be around 1.3-1.5

Slower dagger on MH with Instant Poison (PPM), and Faster dagger on OH with Deadly Poison (Chance)

Glyphs
=====
- Glyph of Hunger for Blood
- Glyph of Mutilate
- Glyph of Rupture

Enchants
=======
- Weapons: Berserking(Very expensive) or Mongoose(Less expensive)
- Head: Arcanum of Torment from Ebon Blade (Revered)
- Shoulders: Greater Inscription of the Axe from Sons of Hodir (Exalted) also a lesser one for Honored.
- Chest: Powerful Stats(Expensive) or Super Stats(Cheap)
- Legs: Icescale Leg Armor
- Waist: Eternal Belt Buckle
- Wrist: Greater Asssault
- Hands: Crusher or Major Agility
- Boots: Icewalker
- Cloak: Major Agility

*** Consider using +hit +exp enchants if you are not happy with your rating (don't go below minimum of 200 hit and 20 exp) as good +hit gear is not common.

Gems
====
Meta - Relentless earthsieg diamond - +21 Agi +3% crit damage.
Red - AP or Agi
Yellow - AP/Crit or AP/Hit
Blue - AP/Sta or Agi/Sta

Enough with the crap
================
Ok, now starts the fun part... Rotations and skill.
First of all trash and boss encounters have a different approach , I think any sane rogue is doing that distinction... but here are the common rules.

Before entering combat:
HfB : Since you can no longer trigger HfB before combat, Try to open with Garrote or relay on someone to apply a fast bleed.
1) Make sure you are stealthed
2) Make sure you have a TotT on the MT and that you are close to him like a second shadow

Trash rotation (2-3 mobs in 10 yr range)
---------------------------------------
Pre rotation : (Overkill)Garrote-> HfB -> Mutil -> SnD -> Mutil to 5CP -> Envenom (After waiting for 5 dp stacks and > 60 enery or SnD about to end)
Rotation cycle : 5v
Exception : Refresh HfB when 8 secs left or right after 5cp envenom when 3 secs left.
Refresh HfB before killing a mob and moving to next mob if under 20 secs left.

Trash rotation (Above 3 mobs in 10 yr range)
-------------------------------------------
Pre rotation : While MT's target is targeted, Auto attack out of range
Rotation : (Overkill)FoK spam / Auto attack when target killed
Exception : When left with less than 3 mobs, switch to Trash rotation for 2-3 mobs.
When detecting a bleed debuff on the main target, trigger HfB

Boss rotation(Tank & spank)
---------------------------
Pre rotation : (Overkill)Garrote-> HfB -> Mutil -> SnD -> Mutil to 5CP -> Envenom (After waiting for 5 dp stacks and > 60 enery or SnD about to end)
Rotation cycle : +4r/+4v
Exception : Refresh HfB when 8 secs left or right after 5cp envenom or rupture when 5 secs left.
Try to get 5v when possible but go for 4v if envenom buff is down for too long
DPS Boost : When DPS is stable and after 2-3 cycles, wait for almost full energy bar and Vanish to gain Overkill and apply a Garrote while continuing the normal cycle (not the pre rotation) OR if nuke needed just keep the cycle but with more envenoms even over rupture.

Boss rotation(With adds)
------------------------
Same as tank and spank rotation but only this time make sure you refresh SnD and HfB before leaving the boss.
When engaging adds switch to trash rotation.

Efficiency and Time on Target
======================
This is nice and simple, all you need to do is keep 3 timers up on boss.
But unfortunately the life of the raiding rogue is far from easy or simple.
All those timers needs to stay up while doing the following:

- Moving after kited boss
- Avoiding boss AoEs
- Avoiding boss cleaves
- Moving between boss and adds
- Handle being knockbacked
- Handle being stunned
- Handle aggro as you definetly don't want to be right after the tank on the list

In the bottom line, too many factors that can break your perfect rotation and HfB/SnD/Rup timers

So how to minimize the chances of that happening and gain more Time on Target and efficiency?

1 ) Be a gnome/human Rogue Keybind your racial ability to remove stuns/fears immediately and resume contact.
2 ) Keybind sprint. Use immediately when you get knocked back or when going from adds to boss.
3 ) Anticipate a dangerous situation, use Evasion and CloS before it happens and not after. Doing those late might be too late.
4 ) Always keep a 3rd eye (as 2 already on timers and on the battlefield) on threat meters, If you don't like your position on the list just vanish to reset your aggro.
5 ) Try to be last on the aggro list. You are a squishy melee. MT dies = You die. While boss runs for ranged players... MT can be battle rezzed and you can still be among the living.
6 ) When you aggro and vanish on CD, Evasion -> Mutil-> Kidney shot and run away from danger
7 ) Some situations force you to be out of range and run to your target. Use this time to refresh HfB while running and if some CP left on target, refresh SnD if it's about to end.
8 ) Act before its too late. For example, refresh your HfB before maexxna web sprays everyone or SnD before Gothic returns to your side with the CP left on him.

I can go on like this forever, but just remember that the melee role and being squishy forces you to react fast and anticipate a lot, all in
order to keep your rotations flawless.

The result, rock solid high dps.

For any comment / discussion, either post here or contact me in-game.

Cheers,

V

Real nice guide. Im happy to have it on our site. Ive read tons of stuff on combat rogues as I hit 70 and barely started raiding in tbc, but know nothing of wolk mutilate spec and rotations.
I hope our rogues all memorize this info.
Thanks Verill.

You da man Verill!!!

guide rulez

thanks a milion man

Rock

My pleasure

very nice guide, makes me want to lvl my rouge

Honestly.. followed the guide (spec and stuff) and my dps just went through the ROOF! very nice man.. playing rogue is fun again

Hey Verill!
I've just finished reading your guide, and about to go spec mutilate. But first I have a few questions:
-Is the optimal MH speed 1.6-1.8, or is it better if it can be even slower?
- Didn't understand why you wanted to HfB when there is 5 secs back on rupture, why not let it tick out?
- If I have 5 CPs and I still don't have 5 DP stacks, what do I do?

Really liked your guide, good work, man.
Cheers

Hello Morgul.

When I look at it now... I need to do some serious update for 3.2.2

But.. regarding your questions:

1) I will even say that the optimal speed is 1.7-1.8 and ofc using the best possible dps on the dagger. There are no pve valid slower daggers in Wotlk.
But know that each 0.1 faster than 1.8 is -9 AEP points in terms of theorycrafting.
2) I meant 5 seconds left on HfB. It is ok to let rupture run out and instead having more energy into envenoms and mutilates.
But the #1 rule.... once you manage to start HfB, never let it run out.
Simple example... you do 7k dps on a boss and you let HfB fall... that is 18% of your dps... every second without HfB is around 1.5k less dps.
3) After 3.2.2 all the deadly poison issues with Mutilate build are gone. Envenom no longer consumes the DP stacks.
But for history sake... This whole side of decision making is quite complicated but here are the factors that needed to be looked at before deciding what to do:

In a situation of ... lets say... 3 DP stacks and full 5 CP on target...
1. Is my SnD going short on time ? (Less than 12 seconds)
----1.1 No, So is my rupture going to end in the near 3sec?
--------1.1.1 Yes it is, I will rupture to use the full effect of it once rupture ends.
--------1.1.2 No it isn't.
------------- I will pool energy to above mutilate (~65), Use envenom and immediately a Mutilate.
------------- This will make my DP stack to 5 in no time. This is btw the best point to start an envenom buff chain over refreshing rupture
---- 1.2 Yes SnD is low and about to end, how much energy do I have ?
--------1.2.1 Im dry on energy (less than 30-40) , I will use eviscerate as soon as possible to refresh SnD but not consume the DP
--------1.2.1 Im around 50 energy, I will pool to 60, Envenom and immediately Mutilate

For this... if my HfB is about to end and I have no current bleed on the target (from any source), I will rupture regardless.

If you have any questions if I was unclear you can also catch me in-game.

Hey man, thanks for the feedback.
Concerning the weapon speed, I got my hands on this new dagger from Coren Direbrew (brewfest event) Link ->http://thottbot.com/i49120
That is a 2.0 speed, and I was unclear if it was any good. Whatsoever I'm using it for PvP (for the bonus burst).
I will certainly try to catch you in-game for some more questions(:

Cheers

It is a valid Mutilate dagger for Naxx content imo.

I hope you have nice haste to support this.
It won't make that impact as 1.8 speed when envenom buffs are up, But, it is not awful.

easy-to-do tip:
get Black Knight's Rondel from the Black Knight in ToC5 hc - it is not that amazing as well but sure is better than ur current dagger.

Hey all

and hey Verill

just something i saw on Keda's rogue application i thought ild come on here and clear up

as i dont know him, but i do know a bit about rogues thought ild throw some input into muti

the new muti haste build is very viable in raids, as me and you discussed this mid raid once when i was on my rogue



and as for stacking AP instead of Agi is because as far as im aware, poisons now scale with AP slightly, which over long fights can be a real damage increase in the long term, as opposed to bigger and harder hits, yes crit is good, but crit has been slightly gimped in terms of other stats such as haste

as you can obtain crit buffs from raid, as opposed to the limited haste buffs you recieve

as for haste, its very important for a muti rogue, as haste + crit = white crits at higher speeds = energy increase

which will increase dps ofc



just so you know, theres a couple of viable muti specs, but because hes not using your one, dont try and tell him his is wrong

2 of the best rogues on the server use it, and pull insane dps, and im sure they know what they are doing, as i know you know what your doing

theres more than one way to skin a cat remember


kellock out

also as for gemming up a muti rogue


look up some of the best muti rogues on wow on the armoury and look how theyve gemmed



and youll see what i mean

*** Warning , Text wall ahead ***

Dear Kellock, where should I start...

Rogue's combat mechanism is one of the more complicated systems in wow (As stated by Ghost Crawler himself).
Thus, one spec that is fine for one rogue... does not play well for other.

How a spec plays to your favor is determined by the huge mish mash of build,stats and the alcohol % in the player's blood.

Few points about me... since it seem u were quick to judge my personality with ur post:

a) I always read up on forums and check other *better* rogues, and also issue conversations about theory with the rogues in our realm.
b) I will never tell a fellow rogue ("Hey, your build sucks coz it is not mine, and I perform better than you")
c) I am testing and analyzing a lot... really a lot, and that is a big difference from a read&copy players.
d) This guide ... is old... and when it was written , 51/13/7 *was* the best mutil build, period (just in case... me claiming my build was the best... pissed u off)
e) Me , i'm far from being even close to be called among the "Best geared" rogues on the server....

Thus, it offends me a bit that u have decided to write "there's more than one way to skin a cat remember", as yes.... i do remember.

Builds i've tested since 3.3 was out:
51/13/7 - classic rupture
51/13/7 - classic ruptureless
51/18/2 - haste mutil Relentless-less
51/18/2 - haste mutil Opportunity-less

My conclusion was that 51/18/2 clearly falls behind 51/13/7 on envenom uptime, making it even worse than 13/7 on non-tank-spank situations and bumping into energy starving situations.

Did I erase 18/2 from my list ? nope I didn't.
I am currently trying to raise my crit rating / haste / hit to such a level that will allow me to switch the gems to AP and go 51/18/2 and minimize the energy starvation.

Ofc the best geared rogues go 51/18/2 with AP gems..... their stats allow it. I can only drool for that at the moment.

So when I see a player with ~ or < my stats goes around with 51/18/2, I will advice them to try 51/13/7 ruptureless or 51/13/7 rupture if << my stats.

But above all .... "What works best"

P.S , I never told him that he is "wrong". I advised something else. Just like I advised you and really want to know if you felt improvement.

wasnt judging your personality at all so dont start with that, having a bad day as it is without having to defend myself



you were asking keda about his gems, asking why he chose AP over Agi.....but as you pretty much just said in your post above rogues can stack AP


not doubting your knowledge of rogues, not one bit


but dont make out like im trying to insult you or make you look bad, because im not


i just wanted a discussion and if you think im systematically judging you or something, your very very wrong

"just so you know, there's a couple of viable muti specs, but because hes not using your one, dont try and tell him his is wrong"

This was the line that triggered me and you are not the only one with a bad day it seems.

so if I was reading u wrong or/and you were reading me wrong... then i am sorry.

discussions and especially over this thread are a blessing.

i think the whole meaning of the post is wrong


wasnt questioning your abilities or knowledge of rogues as such, maybe thats how it seemed mate


was just clearing up to why it looked to me anyway that you were looking at keda


ahhhh i give up

ill stick to warlocks in future lol

but please dont take offence to anything i was saying, wasnt meant like that, was just trying to have a discussion and probably came out wrong, so i apologise

well... the tone on the application forms is a bit different than the tone on other places... if u get me ^^

all is cool, no worries.

<3

Awwwwww and here I was hoping that you'd both fight naked in some mud... so close...

/facepalm

big sexual hugs

tho im not getting naked

cant afford to collapse haha

and billy billy billy, pffft ill only wrestle in the mud if your gonna be the ref :p