Login   Register FAQ    Search
It is currently Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:05 pm

All times are UTC + 1 hour [ DST ]




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: How Paladin Tanks Function
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:18 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:32 pm
Posts: 226
Ok after i got aggro pulled off me earlier in gruuls lair, i'm writing so u know how paladin tanks work, in the hope u will give me a little more time to generate threat.

Basically:
I build threat passively this means through blocking and some attacks, so if the target hits me about 5/6 times, i should have blocked atleast 1 attack and so have high enough aggro to start on him. I do have active threat techniques but they pail in comparisan to Holy Shield. (And yes i do use them)

I use Judgement of Crusade to increase my threat by roughly 20% more, this is a cast that uses my judgement up (8 sec CD), and i use it first to start with the aggro.

I use Seal of Vengeance, which puts a stackable dot on the target so that aggro is generated over time (think lacerate or sunder) it has a 1 in 3 proc rate so may take a while

Consecration gives me roughly 200 tps, however it is an AoE move so i cant use it near CC other wise i may break it, so i sometimes move my target away from the CCed mobs so that i can use it.

Avengers Shield this is my "pulling" move, its incredibly mana inefficient, and has a long CD but it does give me 1.3k threat and it has a 1 sec cast, during which time im vunerable to attacks.

Holy Shield and Retri Aura:
these are the 2 things that build most of my threat, they are dependant on me getting hit, and when i use BoSanc (more on that in a sec) I should be un-touchable after a few attacks on me.

BoSanc, Short for Blessing of Sanctuary, very good buff for protadins and warrior tanks, basicall reduces damage by 81 (yeah i know, not that big a deal) but on blocks it does some holy damage to the attacker, thus generating threat.

Taunt:
I use a taunt macro to get mobs on to me, as unlike war taunts, mine works by me targeting the person getting attacked by my target, and using a taunt (40 yrd range) to bring the mob back, draw backs are that i need to be within 40 yards of the thing that my target is attacking, and that it has a 15 sec CD

Other useful things to note:
I get mana back from heals (over heals dont count)
When im below 35% hp i take 30% less dam, or is it the other way around? meh. Im not saying let me get that low, but its there to make sure that i have a little more survivability.
I use Darkmoon Card: Vengeance, which causes 90-110 holy damage to an attacker, but has a proc rate of 10%, helps with threat, and the 51 sta helps me too :P

I think thats it, so if anything else u need to know just post on here and i'll get back to u

PS if u see me with salv and not RF on then tell me :P gotta get used to taking it off

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:45 am 
Offline
Officer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:18 pm
Posts: 723
Location: Israel
Main: Semion
Class: Druid
Type: Tank
Alt: Waier
Alt Class: Hunter
Alt Type: Ranged DPS
Character (Second Alt): Segal
Second Alt's Class: Priest
Second Alt's Type: Ranged DPS
Thanks Shead, just a little notice about Grulls Lair .
When tanking Warlock , you must leave him alone when his demon is tanking him back , just stand away from him . The reason you dont need to tank him is that he is doing very big shadow damage and fear on you , so healers cant heal you , when you running away !

_________________
Image

Image
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:39 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:32 pm
Posts: 226
O.o i didnt get aggro on the lock, because i was leaving it for the felhunter. Plus it kept running randomly around when michael had it so i couldnt chase it down :<

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:29 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:35 pm
Posts: 45
Paladin tanks? Do's and Don'ts

My experience so far with paladin's tanking is that it takes a bit of getting used to. the way they tank differs a bit from the way warriors tank (or druids for that matter, though i don't have alot of experience with them). I will list what you can do, what you can't do when there's a paladin tanking. also explain a bit about how they pull and everything else I can think off.

The first major difference is that paladins use mana to tank, where as warriors and druids use rage. This means that Paladins can go all out the moment the fight starts, where as the warriors/druids have to wait for their rage to build up before being able to do any massive threat skills (correct me if I'm wrong). This also means that paladins have to rest once in a while to get his/her mana to full and that a paladin without mana is a paladin who can't keep aggro very well. I find that I have to sit down every 3 or 4 pulls to get my mana up again. This all depends on how many mobs there are attacking the paladin at the same time. More mobs = more damage = more heals, and since paladins have a native ability called spiritual attunement, which gives the paladin 10% of the amount he gets healed for in mana, they will generally end up with alot more mana then when there's alot of cc (crowd control) going on.
Also, the more mobs do attacks! on the paladin (not damage) the more threat generation the paladin has, and the more damage mitigation he has. this is because of the two talents called reckoning (when hit has a 10% chance to get double attacks for the next 8 seconds (4 charges) and redoubt (when hit has a 10% chance to get +30% block chance).
If you have blessing of sanctuary on (which you should have in raids at all times) blocking attacks means 46 holy damage returned. which is 46+90% points worth of threat.
Because of the need of paladins to get attacked to be able to get alot of threat on the mobs, overaggro'ing is a big problem. Sure we have a taunt, but it's on a 15 second cooldown (13 if you've got 4 pieces of the dungeon 3 set). And our judgements usually don't do enough damage to take back the aggro (especially true for raid geared tankadins). This doesn't count for demons and undeads, since we have a few nifty spells to do some serious damage on them :) (exorcism, holy wrath). Basically what you need to do is use any threat reducing skill you might have and/or stop everything for a moment. Untill you see the mob back on the paladin (which is probably what you should do with any tank anyway)

Crowd control:
Paladins, by nature, are not very crowd control friendly. If the mobs you're pulling aren't demons or undead, there's only one tool available for use, which is avenger's shield. This works a bit like the shaman chain lightning spell, you cast it on a target, and it jumps to 2 other targets in the area. The targets it jumps to, however, cannot be controlled. This is a rather big problem, because of the rogue's sap easily breaking =\ (I barely even take rogues with me, because of this)
Just don't cast avenger's shield then you say? Not an option either. Remember how I said it's hard for a paladin to overaggro people on mobs? This is really the skill to stop mobs from going after the healer the first time he heals anything. I currently deal about 600 holy damage non-crit on normal monsters. this is 600+90% = 1140 points worth of threat. would take a bit of healing to get more than that.
This part is for mages in particular, or basically any class with an in-combat cc (apart from banish). When you see yellow sort of.. lava cracks on the ground, it means that the paladin has cast a nifty spell called consecration. this deals holy damage to every mob every second standing inside the effect. It also means that any cc that is cast when consecration is up, is immediatly broken. I've seen mages waste alot of mana trying to sheep, just to see it broken after less than one second again. Again, WATCH OUT FOR THE YELLOW STUFF ON THE GROUND, AND DON'T CC IN IT.

AoE (area of effect) tanking
It might appear to you that consecration is just a pain in the ass and not usefull for anything. You couldn't be more wrong :).
Those people that have gone to shadow labyrinth with me have to agree, pallies kick ass in there. For those who have never been there I will explain. Right before the second boss, there's a series of pulls where you have to fight 4 or 5 elites at the same time. What you do with a warrior tanking is try to cc as much of them as possible, and take them down one by one. Not only is this very mana intensive, but very dangerous. what if a cc breaks before it's supposed to? or gets resisted? The warrior will have a hard time try to hold aggro on all the mobs, but a paladin will not! What you do with paladins tanking is maybe cc one of the mobs that are there, if the healer can't keep up with the damage. pull everything, spam consecration, and let the mages/warlocks/hunters/whatever go happy casting any aoe spell they like. while not even getting close to being attacked. (unless you heavily outgear the tank, but you'd have a problem with single targets as well anyway). Needless to say this is one of the great benefits a pally brings to the group.

How to heal tankadins
Not much to be said about this. except for trying to keep his health up as much as possible, so he won't have to worry about his mana :P (Some healers tend to wait till the tank is at 30% health and then throw out big heals). Paladins out of mana are no good.

Main differences between all three tanks
Druids - High hp and armor, high dodge. great for bosses/monsters (onyxia) who reset aggro alot.
Warriors - HP a bit higher than paladins, armor about the same. great for caster bosses and hard slow hitting bosses.
Paladins - lowest HP of the three, armor the same as warrior, great protection against crushing blows. Great for fast hitting bosses, and holding aggro on alot of mobs at the same time.

Out of these three, warriors have the least threat generation (don't argue, it's true) Paladins have the hardest time to overcome other peoples threat, and druids can't really protect themselves from crushing blows. against demons and undead paladin have the best threat generation hands down.

Other notes
Don't ever argue over what buffs you should get. Pallies know best :)

_________________
Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:40 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:30 pm
Posts: 1093
Main: Mirid
Class: Druid
Type: Tank
Alt: Mirid
Alt Class: Druid
Alt Type: Ranged DPS
Ssrassaxx wrote:
Don't ever argue over what buffs you should get. Pallies know best :)


Stop giving my Warlock Blessing of Wisdom and I'll agree with you :P

Seriously, this thread has been very helpful; I didn't know any of this! Thanks for taking the time to write all of this up!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:17 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:32 pm
Posts: 226
blessing of wisdom is a locks 3rd buff :P
we have a general set up of buffs for each class,
1st ones are, might/salv/light
2nd are kings
3rd are mp5 or might

we do this because we try to make life easier for tanks on aggro.

but tbh it really is class dependant...

oh and saxx... i didnt know u were a protadin :P

btw pallys cant go all out at the start of a fight, we have an 8 sec CD for our attacks.
and at the start of a fight i tend to boost aggro gained for the rest of the fight to make it slightly harder to out aggro me.

I do try to use all my aggro generating abilitys when i can but it doesnt mean that i can always do so. as they may get resisted etc... i need to make up this by getting a little spell hit and stuff, but atm i cant get much better gear than i have, except from heroic MgT for the mace, and exalted with SSO (shield).

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:11 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:35 pm
Posts: 45
I have done many things when i still played wow :P

_________________
Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How Paladin Tanks Function
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:16 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 1:05 pm
Posts: 12
Location: UK, England, London
Main: Conorlol
Class: Hunter
Type: Ranged DPS
Alt: Ferociouss
Alt Class: Druid
Alt Type: Below Level 70
Character (Second Alt): Bulsye
Second Alt's Class: Mage
Second Alt's Type: Below Level 70
im not even sure if im allowed to post in here, soz if im not, just delete it ^^
it was said that palas have the least health? lol soz but i laughed when i saw that, im no pala but you dont see 23k health un buffed warriors? and plenty of the protadins talents are for stamina no?
usually i find equally geared ( like t5 etc ) warriors and paladins, palas tend to have a bit more health, but when you get to the t6 gear, thats when you get the 23k un buffed palas ^^

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How Paladin Tanks Function
PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:31 pm 
Offline
Class Leader

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:35 pm
Posts: 264
Main: Nephthys
Class: Dark Knight
Type: DPS
Alt: Néphthys
Alt Class: Paladin
Alt Type: Healer
Character (Second Alt): Ellii
Second Alt's Class: Mage
Second Alt's Type: Ranged DPS
This is a waaaay old topic. Even before the 10%/6% extra stamina came in for Pala tanks (whichever was recent, the 10% i believe).

But as a pala i generally find the only reason my health is lower than Warriors is because of the frankly appalling tier gear for Pala's.

Badge Gear + A decent Spl Damage Weapon is generally enough for a pala tank in terms of threat generation, but because i have 2 t4 and 1 T5 I'm quite low on stamina compared to an equal geared Warrior.

For Example the Battleworn Tuskguard gets me around 300-400 more health on the T4

_________________
ImageImage ImageImage
Also: 80 Rogue, 72 Warrior, 72 Priest, 75 Mage and 41 Shaman.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC + 1 hour [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
mergenine: WoW Alliance BB3
World of Warcraft ® © 2004-2008 Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. All rights reserved.